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	<title>Comments on: No opt-out from ISP filtering: Two black lists and you can only opt-out from one</title>
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	<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/</link>
	<description>Australian Censorship Discussion Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Dnosauria &#187; Flirting with Absurdity:</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-3312</link>
		<dc:creator>Dnosauria &#187; Flirting with Absurdity:</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-3312</guid>
		<description>[...] October 08 - Bloggers pick up the nugget and run with it. MSM catches up two weeks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] October 08 &#8211; Bloggers pick up the nugget and run with it. MSM catches up two weeks [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Synchronicity - ISP filtering, Iranian bloggers and democracy : Sean the Blogonaut</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-3068</link>
		<dc:creator>Synchronicity - ISP filtering, Iranian bloggers and democracy : Sean the Blogonaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-3068</guid>
		<description>[...] Big brother censorship reared its ugly head with a major Australian ISP confirming that the Australian Government plans to have two blacklists in the filtering regime. One for kiddies so they won&#8217;t see the naughty pictures when they type in penis or vagina and one for adults just incase they want to watch videos of spanking(or visit &#8220;inappropriate&#8221; sites). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Big brother censorship reared its ugly head with a major Australian ISP confirming that the Australian Government plans to have two blacklists in the filtering regime. One for kiddies so they won&#8217;t see the naughty pictures when they type in penis or vagina and one for adults just incase they want to watch videos of spanking(or visit &#8220;inappropriate&#8221; sites). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: someoneWithExperience</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2651</link>
		<dc:creator>someoneWithExperience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-2651</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been doing this stuff for over 8 years and can categorically state that the content filters are only ever approximate. They are ok for corporate use where personnel are subject to employment contracts and the threat of fair dismissal for breach. Also, in a corporate situation, there is both a reasonable subset of web information that is most useful, and a way to whitelist sites if the need arises. This simply does not translate to the public at large. Censorship will hamper innovation, research, independent thought and all things fundamental to the long established and cherished ideals of freedom. Unless the government imposes the same level of control as a corporate employee to an individual member of the public, then there are no penalties for overriding the block. Even with penalties, there will be many ways to circumvent it. The most obvious is encryption. Less obvious is steganography time and or space displaced transports, bandwidth stuffing, covert channels, &amp; data piggy-backing. These kinds of bypasses will get put into canned procedures and products so that all our kids need to do is ask their mate on any one of 20 different on-line chat tools how they did it.

Content filtering at wire-speed demands big iron. Latency will always be introduced, and to keep it to a minimum, the cost of equipment rises sharply. The most effective way is at the application level (notwithstanding the above bypass methods), but that will need even more grunt, and will generate massive log files coupled with the age-old problem of what to do with such a huge store of data.

On top of all this, the ISPs should be quaking for fear of potential litigation:

&quot;So and so died because he got a web page that told him how to top himself. The ISP is supposed to stop this.&quot;

&quot;I should have had that information yesterday, Now I&#039;ve lost a 10 million dollar contract&quot;

- hypothetical I know - but you get the picture. To avoid this, then the ISPs will need to adopt the Wilson&#039;s parking stance: &quot;All care - no responsibility&quot;. Which of course adds to the inherent technical problems of meeting accuracy levels. It&#039;s not fair or correct that a carrier be responsible for the content. As has been pointed out many times - the post office will never be subject to this kind of scrutiny. Why the internet?

Much better would be legislation for web sites to encode their own classification byte and let the end-point filter it. Then a spider could keep some kind of eye on things, and public-reporting of breaches could target offending operators at the source where it belongs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been doing this stuff for over 8 years and can categorically state that the content filters are only ever approximate. They are ok for corporate use where personnel are subject to employment contracts and the threat of fair dismissal for breach. Also, in a corporate situation, there is both a reasonable subset of web information that is most useful, and a way to whitelist sites if the need arises. This simply does not translate to the public at large. Censorship will hamper innovation, research, independent thought and all things fundamental to the long established and cherished ideals of freedom. Unless the government imposes the same level of control as a corporate employee to an individual member of the public, then there are no penalties for overriding the block. Even with penalties, there will be many ways to circumvent it. The most obvious is encryption. Less obvious is steganography time and or space displaced transports, bandwidth stuffing, covert channels, &amp; data piggy-backing. These kinds of bypasses will get put into canned procedures and products so that all our kids need to do is ask their mate on any one of 20 different on-line chat tools how they did it.</p>
<p>Content filtering at wire-speed demands big iron. Latency will always be introduced, and to keep it to a minimum, the cost of equipment rises sharply. The most effective way is at the application level (notwithstanding the above bypass methods), but that will need even more grunt, and will generate massive log files coupled with the age-old problem of what to do with such a huge store of data.</p>
<p>On top of all this, the ISPs should be quaking for fear of potential litigation:</p>
<p>&#8220;So and so died because he got a web page that told him how to top himself. The ISP is supposed to stop this.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I should have had that information yesterday, Now I&#8217;ve lost a 10 million dollar contract&#8221;</p>
<p>- hypothetical I know &#8211; but you get the picture. To avoid this, then the ISPs will need to adopt the Wilson&#8217;s parking stance: &#8220;All care &#8211; no responsibility&#8221;. Which of course adds to the inherent technical problems of meeting accuracy levels. It&#8217;s not fair or correct that a carrier be responsible for the content. As has been pointed out many times &#8211; the post office will never be subject to this kind of scrutiny. Why the internet?</p>
<p>Much better would be legislation for web sites to encode their own classification byte and let the end-point filter it. Then a spider could keep some kind of eye on things, and public-reporting of breaches could target offending operators at the source where it belongs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1983</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 06:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1983</guid>
		<description>This is just Rudd sucking up to the Chinese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just Rudd sucking up to the Chinese.</p>
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		<title>By: Justanoob</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1963</link>
		<dc:creator>Justanoob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1963</guid>
		<description>I run a gaming clan which is called the Xtreme Terrorist Group.  We have been around for a long time, we started back before terrorism was actually a threat in Australia.  My clan website will be blocked under the new big brother policy.  May I ask why?  Probably not, well at the moment I can ask, but don&#039;t expect an answer.  In the future maybe I won&#039;t be able to even ask (welcome to China).  For those who think we can criticise what our government does, your wrong.  They call that sedition, or if its bad enough, treason.  I don&#039;t think I deserve this treatment from our duly elected government as I didn&#039;t vote for the KRUDD labor party.  I&#039;m hoping they form a committee and just forget about it, like everything else.  In the meantime, I&#039;m going to be writing letters on a weekly basis.  Why is it that if people can&#039;t be bothered to supervise their own children on the net, which is the only way this will get through without a fight, by making it about protecting children and get the ignorance/lazy vote, that the rest of the country, who don&#039;t have children and can make an informed decision about what is appropriate for themselves, should be punished with impunity?  Yes there will be ways to get around the filters, and yes those of us who plan on using them will have to pay for it.  BUT WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE.  This has made me mad as a cut snake, time to write some nasty-grams!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I run a gaming clan which is called the Xtreme Terrorist Group.  We have been around for a long time, we started back before terrorism was actually a threat in Australia.  My clan website will be blocked under the new big brother policy.  May I ask why?  Probably not, well at the moment I can ask, but don&#8217;t expect an answer.  In the future maybe I won&#8217;t be able to even ask (welcome to China).  For those who think we can criticise what our government does, your wrong.  They call that sedition, or if its bad enough, treason.  I don&#8217;t think I deserve this treatment from our duly elected government as I didn&#8217;t vote for the KRUDD labor party.  I&#8217;m hoping they form a committee and just forget about it, like everything else.  In the meantime, I&#8217;m going to be writing letters on a weekly basis.  Why is it that if people can&#8217;t be bothered to supervise their own children on the net, which is the only way this will get through without a fight, by making it about protecting children and get the ignorance/lazy vote, that the rest of the country, who don&#8217;t have children and can make an informed decision about what is appropriate for themselves, should be punished with impunity?  Yes there will be ways to get around the filters, and yes those of us who plan on using them will have to pay for it.  BUT WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE.  This has made me mad as a cut snake, time to write some nasty-grams!</p>
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		<title>By: The Australian internet censorship filter is [CONTENT&#160;REMOVED] &#8212; DanuPoyner.com</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1799</link>
		<dc:creator>The Australian internet censorship filter is [CONTENT&#160;REMOVED] &#8212; DanuPoyner.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1799</guid>
		<description>[...] plan calls for two levels of filtering to be implemented by internet service providers [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] plan calls for two levels of filtering to be implemented by internet service providers [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kweeg</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1793</link>
		<dc:creator>Kweeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1793</guid>
		<description>&quot;... If you can be told what you can see and read, then follows that you can be told what to say and think.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; If you can be told what you can see and read, then follows that you can be told what to say and think.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Greens: Taking the Government to task at sw&#8217;as</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1689</link>
		<dc:creator>Greens: Taking the Government to task at sw&#8217;as</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1689</guid>
		<description>[...] sure, but does that mean you automatically know better, Senator? It was disappointing to see the reports confirmed as fact that under their plans it will not be possible to completely opt out of a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sure, but does that mean you automatically know better, Senator? It was disappointing to see the reports confirmed as fact that under their plans it will not be possible to completely opt out of a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mika</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1647</link>
		<dc:creator>Mika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1647</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t they spend their money on improving our broadband system - making it faster and more accessible, and most of all, cheaper........!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t they spend their money on improving our broadband system &#8211; making it faster and more accessible, and most of all, cheaper&#8230;&#8230;..!</p>
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		<title>By: Interview: Internode&#8217;s Mark Newton talks filtering - Somebody Think Of The Children</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/no-opt-out-from-isp-filtering-two-black-lists-and-you-can-only-opt-out-from-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1639</link>
		<dc:creator>Interview: Internode&#8217;s Mark Newton talks filtering - Somebody Think Of The Children</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=838#comment-1639</guid>
		<description>[...] Tim Marshall) has interviewed Internode network engineer Mark Newton tonight. Mark is the guy who confirmed our suspicions that there wouldn&#8217;t be any way to completely opt-out of ISP [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tim Marshall) has interviewed Internode network engineer Mark Newton tonight. Mark is the guy who confirmed our suspicions that there wouldn&#8217;t be any way to completely opt-out of ISP [...]</p>
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