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	<title>Comments on: Protesters advocating child pornography: Bernadette McMenamin</title>
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	<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/</link>
	<description>Australian Censorship Discussion Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Filtering wrap up: Bloggers wipe out McMenamin, Watchdog - Somebody Think Of The Children</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3080</link>
		<dc:creator>Filtering wrap up: Bloggers wipe out McMenamin, Watchdog - Somebody Think Of The Children</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3080</guid>
		<description>[...] Seymour and Stilgherrian replied swiftly to Bernadette Mcmenamin&#8217;s (of Child Wise) sickening accusation of Australians who protest mandatory ISP filtering as advocating child [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Seymour and Stilgherrian replied swiftly to Bernadette Mcmenamin&#8217;s (of Child Wise) sickening accusation of Australians who protest mandatory ISP filtering as advocating child [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Syd Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3067</link>
		<dc:creator>Syd Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3067</guid>
		<description>I think Bernadette McMenamin may have a mail backlog.

I wrote her too, focusing on the potential for political censorship:

&lt;i&gt;As reported, your remarks included the comments: &quot;most of the criticisms levelled at the internet filter scheme are founded on misinformation... It&#039;s disturbing that people are getting hysterical about all the misinformation that is being spread about the internet filter.&quot;
 
My own principal opposition to the &#039;filtering&#039; proposal concerns the potential for political censorship on the web. I have written about this in a number of articles. There is nothing to prevent the &#039;filter&#039; for being used for that purpose and the Government refuses to rule out doing so (in any case, it can&#039;t bind future governments).
 
Can you please explain to me why this concern is &#039;misinformed&#039;? How can you be sure that political censorship will not eventuate from the new proposed censorship system?&lt;/i&gt;

Let&#039;s see if she has the ability to engage in intelligent dialogue. 

In my limited experience, that would be a first for a proponent of the &#039;Clean Feed&#039;. 

The usual response seems to be duck, weave and avoid the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Bernadette McMenamin may have a mail backlog.</p>
<p>I wrote her too, focusing on the potential for political censorship:</p>
<p><i>As reported, your remarks included the comments: &#8220;most of the criticisms levelled at the internet filter scheme are founded on misinformation&#8230; It&#8217;s disturbing that people are getting hysterical about all the misinformation that is being spread about the internet filter.&#8221;</p>
<p>My own principal opposition to the &#8216;filtering&#8217; proposal concerns the potential for political censorship on the web. I have written about this in a number of articles. There is nothing to prevent the &#8216;filter&#8217; for being used for that purpose and the Government refuses to rule out doing so (in any case, it can&#8217;t bind future governments).</p>
<p>Can you please explain to me why this concern is &#8216;misinformed&#8217;? How can you be sure that political censorship will not eventuate from the new proposed censorship system?</i></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s see if she has the ability to engage in intelligent dialogue. </p>
<p>In my limited experience, that would be a first for a proponent of the &#8216;Clean Feed&#8217;. </p>
<p>The usual response seems to be duck, weave and avoid the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3046</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 06:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3046</guid>
		<description>Take note of the recent child pornography busts.

It was noted quite clearly that most (if not all) of the content was distributed through file sharing, not HTML. There were also grave concerns for the welfare of the children being abused.

&#039;Think of the children!&#039; the government cries. Right, so blocking web based content and pretending it&#039;s not there will stop the distribution of content through file sharing and drive funding away from the federal police to investigate and protect these children from abuse is thinking of the children.

With the way the government acts in question time, this logic certainly doesn&#039;t surprise me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take note of the recent child pornography busts.</p>
<p>It was noted quite clearly that most (if not all) of the content was distributed through file sharing, not HTML. There were also grave concerns for the welfare of the children being abused.</p>
<p>&#8216;Think of the children!&#8217; the government cries. Right, so blocking web based content and pretending it&#8217;s not there will stop the distribution of content through file sharing and drive funding away from the federal police to investigate and protect these children from abuse is thinking of the children.</p>
<p>With the way the government acts in question time, this logic certainly doesn&#8217;t surprise me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3045</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 05:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3045</guid>
		<description>&quot;those who are aware are, in effect, advocating child pornography.”

really Ms Mecmenamin?

I guess that means Save The Children one of the world’s largest Child rights groups must be advocating it also?

I guess Amnesty International to?

I think it is clear that Bernadette McMenamin in her position is not used to not getting what she wants.

I believe that 99% of the time most people she talks to find it easier to agree with her rather than be accused of advocating child porn.

WE WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;those who are aware are, in effect, advocating child pornography.”</p>
<p>really Ms Mecmenamin?</p>
<p>I guess that means Save The Children one of the world’s largest Child rights groups must be advocating it also?</p>
<p>I guess Amnesty International to?</p>
<p>I think it is clear that Bernadette McMenamin in her position is not used to not getting what she wants.</p>
<p>I believe that 99% of the time most people she talks to find it easier to agree with her rather than be accused of advocating child porn.</p>
<p>WE WILL NOT BE BULLIED!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Asmodai</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3043</link>
		<dc:creator>Asmodai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3043</guid>
		<description>She has not been misquoted...

She has misquoted.

She has lied, both blatantly and by omission.

She has published unsourced and unsubstantiated material as &quot;fact&quot; which was later thoroughly disproved by Libertus.

I would refer you to 

http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html

106 references, a document that debunks every one of the urban legends and made up figures Ms. McMenamin has used to put forward her case.

Furthermore, her inference that fully informed opposition to this censorship is tantamount to endorsing child pornography is repugnant and offensive.

Closing your eyes to the evidence of the crime does not stop the crime.

Lastly, if Ms. McMenamin truly believed that the anti filter people who understand the situation are in favour of child porn, she wouldn&#039;t have couched the comment so to avoid litigation for slander.  A very telling point, she is not confident enough to state, but knows that even the inference is enough to taint the debate in her favour.

I put Ms. McMenamin&#039;s belief in this system on par with the belief that the world is flat.  Ill informed and willfully ignorant.  As such, I don&#039;t believe she should be cut any slack whatsoever.  I put her methods in line with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other dictators who have used the exact same methods to get their way.  She should be made to prove her accusations or to publicly retract and apologise for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She has not been misquoted&#8230;</p>
<p>She has misquoted.</p>
<p>She has lied, both blatantly and by omission.</p>
<p>She has published unsourced and unsubstantiated material as &#8220;fact&#8221; which was later thoroughly disproved by Libertus.</p>
<p>I would refer you to </p>
<p><a href="http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html" rel="nofollow">http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html</a></p>
<p>106 references, a document that debunks every one of the urban legends and made up figures Ms. McMenamin has used to put forward her case.</p>
<p>Furthermore, her inference that fully informed opposition to this censorship is tantamount to endorsing child pornography is repugnant and offensive.</p>
<p>Closing your eyes to the evidence of the crime does not stop the crime.</p>
<p>Lastly, if Ms. McMenamin truly believed that the anti filter people who understand the situation are in favour of child porn, she wouldn&#8217;t have couched the comment so to avoid litigation for slander.  A very telling point, she is not confident enough to state, but knows that even the inference is enough to taint the debate in her favour.</p>
<p>I put Ms. McMenamin&#8217;s belief in this system on par with the belief that the world is flat.  Ill informed and willfully ignorant.  As such, I don&#8217;t believe she should be cut any slack whatsoever.  I put her methods in line with Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other dictators who have used the exact same methods to get their way.  She should be made to prove her accusations or to publicly retract and apologise for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam D</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3042</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3042</guid>
		<description>If it wasn&#039;t such a political hot potato, I&#039;d suggest we push for a Senate inquiry into the Childwise funding. 

In the meantime, perhaps she can read THE PERVERSE LAW OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY by Amy Adler http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/ilaw/Speech/Adler_full.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it wasn&#8217;t such a political hot potato, I&#8217;d suggest we push for a Senate inquiry into the Childwise funding. </p>
<p>In the meantime, perhaps she can read THE PERVERSE LAW OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY by Amy Adler <a href="http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/ilaw/Speech/Adler_full.html" rel="nofollow">http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/ilaw/Speech/Adler_full.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3041</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3041</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think McMenamin has been misquoted - she&#039;s too consistent with this line, even accusing Telstra of being soft on CP for not taking part in the trial. It&#039;s either dishonest or a stubborn and deliberate effort to stay misinformed; either way it reflects poorly on herself and Childwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think McMenamin has been misquoted &#8211; she&#8217;s too consistent with this line, even accusing Telstra of being soft on CP for not taking part in the trial. It&#8217;s either dishonest or a stubborn and deliberate effort to stay misinformed; either way it reflects poorly on herself and Childwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms Naughty</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3039</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Naughty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3039</guid>
		<description>If we focus purely on the idea of blocking out child porn sites via a blacklist, it seems like a reasonable thing to do.

But consider the fact that the blacklisted URLs would become obsolete in a very short period of time. Essentially, if a URL is found to have child porn, it&#039;s then time for the international police to do their job, track down the perpetrators, shut down the hosting and close the site.

You&#039;re then left with a blacklisted URL without anything on it. The police have essentially done the job of &quot;filtering&quot; already. And it&#039;s possible that being blacklisted will alert the perpetrators before the police have time to act. So the filter makes things harder for the cops.

If we further consider the facts presented by Libertus http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html we&#039;re only talking a very small number of html based sites that are live for a very short amount of time.

Meanwhile, there&#039;s this handy secret blacklist to which any annoying political or sexual content can be added...

Ms McMenamin needs to give a whole lot more thought to what she&#039;s advocating - and leave off with the abusive comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we focus purely on the idea of blocking out child porn sites via a blacklist, it seems like a reasonable thing to do.</p>
<p>But consider the fact that the blacklisted URLs would become obsolete in a very short period of time. Essentially, if a URL is found to have child porn, it&#8217;s then time for the international police to do their job, track down the perpetrators, shut down the hosting and close the site.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re then left with a blacklisted URL without anything on it. The police have essentially done the job of &#8220;filtering&#8221; already. And it&#8217;s possible that being blacklisted will alert the perpetrators before the police have time to act. So the filter makes things harder for the cops.</p>
<p>If we further consider the facts presented by Libertus <a href="http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html" rel="nofollow">http://libertus.net/censor/resources/statistics-laundering.html</a> we&#8217;re only talking a very small number of html based sites that are live for a very short amount of time.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, there&#8217;s this handy secret blacklist to which any annoying political or sexual content can be added&#8230;</p>
<p>Ms McMenamin needs to give a whole lot more thought to what she&#8217;s advocating &#8211; and leave off with the abusive comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam D</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3037</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3037</guid>
		<description>Given that the figures that Childwise use have been thoroughly questioned or even debunked (depending on who you believe), I think that if Bernadette is &quot;fully aware of the facts&quot; that she should share those facts with us. At the moment the only &quot;fact&quot; we have is that Childwise has picked up a large amount of public funding based on figures that have no discernible basis in reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that the figures that Childwise use have been thoroughly questioned or even debunked (depending on who you believe), I think that if Bernadette is &#8220;fully aware of the facts&#8221; that she should share those facts with us. At the moment the only &#8220;fact&#8221; we have is that Childwise has picked up a large amount of public funding based on figures that have no discernible basis in reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Sweet Sister Morphine</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/mcmenamin-on-protesters/comment-page-1/#comment-3034</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweet Sister Morphine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=1975#comment-3034</guid>
		<description>@ Mike. 

I also concur.  We (as in those opposed to compulsory filtering) need to keep the debate polite and rational.  Hate mail only damages the cause, by making us us look like the very hysterical nitwits that some people accuse us of being.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mike. </p>
<p>I also concur.  We (as in those opposed to compulsory filtering) need to keep the debate polite and rational.  Hate mail only damages the cause, by making us us look like the very hysterical nitwits that some people accuse us of being.</p>
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