Filter supporters talk, Australia listens
November 20, 2008 – 9:28 amGuest post by Danu Poyner
There was a lively debate about mandatory internet filtering on ABC Radio National’s ‘Australia Talks’ program Tuesday night. While those who have been following the issue closely will recognise much of the conversation, the debate was interesting because it covered new ground in certain areas. Specifically, we got to hear in-depth from some of the people who support mandatory internet filtering, including its self-declared main lobbyist, Child Wise.
Listen to the debate here
The arguments put forward by the scheme’s supporters appear to cover three main points:
- Illegal material on the internet is harmful to society and should be blocked.
- Censorship standards and content classifications already in place in other media such as TV, radio and print should also be enforced on the internet.
- The Government has an obligation to protect children
Taken at face value, these are reasonable points, and were made in a reasonable way by filter supporters Clive Hamilton and Bernadette McMenamin. But there are serious problems with all three arguments, and those problems were laid out equally reasonably by filter opponents Mark Pesce and Dale Clapperton.

Early in the program, Clive Hamilton makes the point that the ACMA blacklist on which the filtering is to be based primarily consists of child pornography and extreme pornography which is illegal. However it’s telling when he says it’s “not a long list compared to what could be on it” (emphasis mine).
Mark Pesce says filtering is a technical solution to a social problem. Dale Clapperton clarifies that no-one is defending the rights of people to access child porn and other illegal material because such a right doesn’t exist, and this point is made often. Mark and Dale argue that we need to think of it as a law enforcement problem, where the solution is to go after human networks rather than technical networks. The point is also made that very little child porn actually exists on the internet, largely because it is illegal.
When it comes to treating the internet the same way as other media, Dale says under the current classification system, anything R or X rated could end up blocked, even if it isn’t illegal. Everyone agrees that beyond illegal material, it’s incredibly subjective to decide what should or shouldn’t be blocked. However, Clive says that as a society we have to make subjective judgments, and implies that he trusts the classifications board to make those judgments. The point is made several times that people can complain to ACMA if they have a problem with a decision.
The idea that ACMA can handle complaints about blocked URLs on a case by case basis is a quaint little picture, but it just shows that supporters of the filter really don’t grasp the sheer scale and speed of the internet. If the lab tests on filtering are anything to go by, we’re talking thousands of incorrectly blocked URLs every second. And given that there are millions of new URLs added to the internet every day, how is the classifications board going to keep up, given that they made 6,449 classification decisions last year?
Bob, a caller from Melbourne, says he can see problems with the filter but would like it to work. He’s particularly concerned about about the safety of internet chat rooms. Dale points out that the filter makes no attempt to work with chat rooms, Skype or instant messaging. Bernadette McMenamin from Childwise says the technical arguments made against the filter are rubbish and mostly red herrings. She says we should get real and see that the Government is trying to do something good!
And there’s the problem. All the arguments for filtering come back to the idea that the aim is to do something good and therefore why kick up such a fuss, even if it’s not perfect? Surely no-one can argue with wanting to do something good! Clive Hamilton trots out a 2003 Newspoll commissioned by his think tank in which 93% of random people surveyed said they’d support internet filtering. But it’s clearly push-polling, just look at the question:
‘Would you support a system which automatically filtered out internet pornography going into homes unless adult users asked otherwise?’
Of course people would support that. I’d support that. As Mark Pesce says, parents have a natural desire to want to tame the wildness of the internet for their children. But such a magical system simply doesn’t exist. And even if it did, bear in mind that Bernadette McMenamin says she believes that the ISP filtering of illegal material will reduce access to child pornography by at least 30-40%.
Did you catch that? That was a direct quote from Bernadette McMenamin, CEO of Childwise, which she herself says is the main lobbyist for internet filtering. Her goal is that it will reduce access to child pornography by 30-40%. That’s what’s being presented as the best case scenario. That’s what all of this is for. And that’s not some kind of wishful thinking statistic that Bernadette made up on the spot. Listen to the program from around the 42 minute mark. Here’s what she says:
“The people who view child pornography on the internet range in their nature and type. There are your hardened pedophiles, those that will network regardless of filters, there are those that are curious, there are those that are looking for a taboo, there are those that are lonely that escalate from watching porn into child porn. So you cannot categorise them into one. There’s been lots of research around brain mapping and typology of child pornographers. You cannot just put them into the hardened child sex offenders role because those guys can’t be changed and they’re not going to be restricted by filters, but those who are going to be restricted by filters are the ones who are curious, the ones who are looking for these images through the commercial websites and my police advisors etc tell me that 30 to 40% of child pornography on the internet is available through the commercial and known child pornography websites and they can be blocked. It’s not removing it, but it’s reducing it.”
So the filter’s main lobbyist is happy to admit that filtering won’t stop hardened child sex offenders, but will deter the curious by blocking commercial child porn sites that are known to the police. In which case, wouldn’t all this time and money be better spent targeting those sites and getting them taken down, rather than dealing with the problem by imposing expensive, inaccurate censorship on every Australian through a massive new national bureaucracy that is inherently prone to misuse?
We can all support the reduction and prevention of child pornography. But let’s approach it in a way that will actually work. A magical filter is a nice idea, but it doesn’t exist. The ‘clean feed’ is the red herring. Hopefully the Government’s live trials will give it the evidence it needs to back out of the ridiculous corner it’s painted itself into and instead pursue a policy direction that might actually achieve what its supporters want it to.
Danu Poyner is a technology tutor, geek for hire and aspiring writer. He blogs on whatever is on his mind at www.danupoyner.com and is currently writing a book for non-geeks about understanding technology called ‘The Digital Migrant’.



20 Responses to “Filter supporters talk, Australia listens”
Surely the only points that need to be made are that a. Filtering won’t work & b. it is not technologically possible. We know this and in these currently economically straightened times it constitutes a waste of time and money. Anything else obfuscation.
I’ll confess, I likes me porn. But that is a side issue.
By Stevian on Nov 20, 2008
I’m just wondering how Hamilton knows what is exactly on the ACMA blacklist as no one except ACMA seems to know at this point. As Finland’s black list had less than 1% of it’s list that was actually child porn (the rest being stuff people could legally access), why would ACMA’s list be any different?
I also note that the posts on the message boards on ABC’s site for the program were 100% against filtering, which seems to be quite an occurring theme whenever debate come up about this topic. Very few people seem to want filtering.
By Matthew on Nov 20, 2008
At least McMenamin is consistent. Throughout the whole public debate he message has been “Can we just put aside the facts that nobody wants it and it’s impossible for a moment, and focus on the positives.”
It’s not difficult to share my confusion about her position however.
By Geordie Guy on Nov 20, 2008
I’m almost certain we’re going to lose on this. As Danu writes, the issue is wrong on a technical level. It’s not conceptually wrong to want a filter like this if it actually existed and worked.
Your average voter doesn’t understand the ‘technical mumbo jumbo’ and will rely on any idiot in parliament to tell them it works. If it works, it saves ‘the children’ and therefore it’s good.
On another note, one thing most ‘older’ people get wrong is 1. the technical details of new technology and 2. the cleverness of kids, especially with technology they grew up with.
Guys, the internet isn’t web sites to anyone under 20. It’s not the big ‘e’ icon on your desktop. It’s bittorrent, it’s limewire, it’s social networking through IM, or so-called web 2.0 applications. If kids want hardcore or illegal porn, they’ll just use these instead like it’s nothing different. We’re going to lose because nobody with any real clout understands this.
By Steve Androulakis on Nov 20, 2008
There is still no sufficient proof that watching pornography at a younger age or at any age increases the persons willingness to perform violent sexual acts. It’s like the argument that video game violence causes real life violence. I have noticed that all people for the filter really dont understand that technical problems or just simply ignore them.
By Jarrod on Nov 20, 2008
I think @Geordie Guy sums it up well. The main argument of the supporters is:
“Can we just put aside the facts that nobody wants it and it’s impossible for a moment, and focus on the positives.”
The way to win this argument is not through free speech, though that is important. The way to win is to keep saying:
“The Govt is proposing a magic filter. We’d all like that, and we’d all like world peace while you’re at it. There’s no magic filter. What else have you got?”
By Danu Poyner on Nov 20, 2008
“I’m almost certain we’re going to lose on this. ”
We will only lose on this if the Greens or Liberals vote for it. (Or if there’s a double diss and Labor ends up with a Senate majority.)
There is a strong need to keep up civil pressure on Greens and Libs as well as Labor.
I wouldn’t. I believe this type of filtering of legal material should be opt-in, not opt-out.
Oddly enough, that’s how things are right now.
By lauredhel on Nov 20, 2008
“I’m almost certain we’re going to lose on this”
Ah Steve, you are more then welcome to “give up” However Do not speak for me and others!
Keep up the Great Work Guys:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1082048&p=13
By Don on Nov 20, 2008
this kinda crap labor is pulling wouldn’t happen in france, over there if a politician even suggests the notion of censoring something, immediately half the country is in flames with the population turing over cars, smashing shop windows and demanding the fools head on a pike.
besides, history has already dictated that banning things doesn’t work, just look at the prohibition era.
By blind_dead_mcjones on Nov 20, 2008
blind_dead is spot on. I think there is a real danger in arguing the technical limitations of this scheme. One day the technical stuff will be sorted out, in the meantime a lot will put up with an imperfect net experience.
Remember the old story about the guy who throws a powder around to keep the pink elephants away, when someone points out there are no pink elephants there, he says see it’s working.
To me I completely object to public servants being able to censor the net. This is UNACCEPTABLE. If someone goes to an illegal site (not unwanted) they go to JAIL. So we don’t need a filter for that.
I appreciate the technical guys with their technical arguments but we should argue the principle of government censors, and say sure we support an opt in filter system for those who want it.
By Terrence Valter on Nov 21, 2008
“One day the technical stuff will be sorted out,”
Wouldn’t bet on it.
By anonny-ho on Nov 21, 2008
Many have been saying that we really can’t argue this on a technical level. The thing is though, whether the anti-filter side argues with technical or moral, it’s met with moral arguments only from the pro-filter side.
I am so goddamn sick of the ignorant advocates of ISP filtering using the moral highground of protecting the children. Because in their world, anything that might protect the children in their mind is good, regardless of the effect on anything else.
The bubble generations are only going to get bigger, with the bubble covering more than not allowing kids to play in the dirt anymore.
By Sasha on Nov 21, 2008
. Because in their world, anything that might protect the children in their mind is good, regardless of the effect on anything else.
Spot on ‘in their mind’ won’t work in reality. Conroy is either a fool or getting pressured, now I wonder by who or whom.
By Lang Mack on Nov 22, 2008
I say, hire “Crash Override” and “Acid Burn” to covertly hack illegal sites off the internet…
problem solved.
see you guys at the march
By JR on Nov 24, 2008
Greens Senator Scott Ludlam is asking questions of the minister in parliament…
http://greens.org.au/node/3738
I’m quite sure that the proposal would not be supported by the Greens at all.
By Sam Bauers on Nov 24, 2008