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	<title>Comments on: Bernadette McMenamin&#8217;s argument for filtering hinges on one very big &#8216;if&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/</link>
	<description>Australian Censorship Discussion Blog</description>
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		<title>By: HTA</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3741</link>
		<dc:creator>HTA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3741</guid>
		<description>What I cannot understand is why preventing the viewing of child pornography is such a high priority.

The argument of supply and demand - that those who view child pornography create demand, thus increasing the number of children who are abused - seems null and void to me since, on the internet, you can pretty much get anything for free. By this logic, having child pornography on the internet is in fact REDUCING the demand for the material, since those who are inclined to view it are not forced to BUY it through more conventional means.

It&#039;s the same as, for example, the music industry, which many claim is shrinking because of rampant piracy. Except, in the case of child pornography, having the material is already illegal, so there is no reason to fear retribution for downloading it... in fact, one would think it much safer than buying it in some dark and dingy alley (or wherever it is that you buy the stuff anyway).

I also refuse to believe that having access to child porn will make people more likely to abuse children themselves. Adults have been sexually &#039;abusing&#039; children throughout recorded history. Surely people being able to get their &#039;fix&#039;, for free, in their own home, does nothing but reduce their desire to resort to more extreme, and certainly far more dangerous (from the standpoint of being arrested) methods.

So child pornography on the internet reduces demand, and also desire.

Of course, what I&#039;m forgetting here is that the government is not actually interested in stopping child abuse, it&#039;s interested in persuading the idiots who make up the voting majority that it is doing all it can to stop it. Sadly, one of these idiots seems to be Bernadette McMenamin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I cannot understand is why preventing the viewing of child pornography is such a high priority.</p>
<p>The argument of supply and demand &#8211; that those who view child pornography create demand, thus increasing the number of children who are abused &#8211; seems null and void to me since, on the internet, you can pretty much get anything for free. By this logic, having child pornography on the internet is in fact REDUCING the demand for the material, since those who are inclined to view it are not forced to BUY it through more conventional means.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same as, for example, the music industry, which many claim is shrinking because of rampant piracy. Except, in the case of child pornography, having the material is already illegal, so there is no reason to fear retribution for downloading it&#8230; in fact, one would think it much safer than buying it in some dark and dingy alley (or wherever it is that you buy the stuff anyway).</p>
<p>I also refuse to believe that having access to child porn will make people more likely to abuse children themselves. Adults have been sexually &#8216;abusing&#8217; children throughout recorded history. Surely people being able to get their &#8216;fix&#8217;, for free, in their own home, does nothing but reduce their desire to resort to more extreme, and certainly far more dangerous (from the standpoint of being arrested) methods.</p>
<p>So child pornography on the internet reduces demand, and also desire.</p>
<p>Of course, what I&#8217;m forgetting here is that the government is not actually interested in stopping child abuse, it&#8217;s interested in persuading the idiots who make up the voting majority that it is doing all it can to stop it. Sadly, one of these idiots seems to be Bernadette McMenamin.</p>
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		<title>By: kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3737</link>
		<dc:creator>kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3737</guid>
		<description>Wow, I can&#039;t wait for these for these filters to be implemented. When these filters are implemented all child abuse and creation of children pornography will cease to exist in Australia.

Then the rest of the world can see how great implementing ISP mandatory filters are and they will all follow Australia&#039;s lead and then the whole world will be a child safe environment.

Seriously though...

In her article she said
&quot;Viewing child pornography should not even be considered as freedom of speech.&quot;

Does Bernadette McMenamin seriously think that people consider filtering child pornography on the internet an issue about free speech?

She must really be stupid if she can&#039;t even consider other possible implications of this filter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I can&#8217;t wait for these for these filters to be implemented. When these filters are implemented all child abuse and creation of children pornography will cease to exist in Australia.</p>
<p>Then the rest of the world can see how great implementing ISP mandatory filters are and they will all follow Australia&#8217;s lead and then the whole world will be a child safe environment.</p>
<p>Seriously though&#8230;</p>
<p>In her article she said<br />
&#8220;Viewing child pornography should not even be considered as freedom of speech.&#8221;</p>
<p>Does Bernadette McMenamin seriously think that people consider filtering child pornography on the internet an issue about free speech?</p>
<p>She must really be stupid if she can&#8217;t even consider other possible implications of this filter.</p>
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		<title>By: SkipEU</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3736</link>
		<dc:creator>SkipEU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3736</guid>
		<description>I doubt child pornography is mainly distributed through web sites. They probably use password protected files on emule, torrents, newsgroups, irc channels, MSN, file hosting services etc. How can you block/filter all those options? You simply can&#039;t because it&#039;s impossible.

&lt;i&gt; Why is it that many ISPs in the UK, Canada, Scandinavia &lt;/i&gt;

Australian internet is in stone age compared to those countries. And as you should have seen on this blog countries with those filters are also blocking perfectly legal sites and child pornography is still present.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt child pornography is mainly distributed through web sites. They probably use password protected files on emule, torrents, newsgroups, irc channels, MSN, file hosting services etc. How can you block/filter all those options? You simply can&#8217;t because it&#8217;s impossible.</p>
<p><i> Why is it that many ISPs in the UK, Canada, Scandinavia </i></p>
<p>Australian internet is in stone age compared to those countries. And as you should have seen on this blog countries with those filters are also blocking perfectly legal sites and child pornography is still present.</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3735</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3735</guid>
		<description>We the unwilling have been abused by the unknowing for so long we now know it is a waste of time to try to inform them of their stupidity. No one disagrees with protecting children but excuse me we have a government that is not willing to be transparent about what web sites it intends to block. Simple solution - be transparent and publsih the list. No one would be able to argue then that is some secret censorship going on and no one would be upset about blocking the listed sites. If the list is wrong it can be challenged and corrected - simple. It is that Conroy is bent on a secret list that is the problem, today it is about illegal child propongraphy, so what about Islamic websites? I bet they don&#039;t get blocked - or will they? No one knows and that is the problem. As long as the good Senator wants to keep secrets we are suspicious so perhaps the campaigners for the filter should get onto our side and fight for transparent lists? If we are together then there is a united front that the govt will be less likely to resist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We the unwilling have been abused by the unknowing for so long we now know it is a waste of time to try to inform them of their stupidity. No one disagrees with protecting children but excuse me we have a government that is not willing to be transparent about what web sites it intends to block. Simple solution &#8211; be transparent and publsih the list. No one would be able to argue then that is some secret censorship going on and no one would be upset about blocking the listed sites. If the list is wrong it can be challenged and corrected &#8211; simple. It is that Conroy is bent on a secret list that is the problem, today it is about illegal child propongraphy, so what about Islamic websites? I bet they don&#8217;t get blocked &#8211; or will they? No one knows and that is the problem. As long as the good Senator wants to keep secrets we are suspicious so perhaps the campaigners for the filter should get onto our side and fight for transparent lists? If we are together then there is a united front that the govt will be less likely to resist.</p>
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		<title>By: didier</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3731</link>
		<dc:creator>didier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3731</guid>
		<description>We are living in an unprecedented social experiment.

Never so much technology has been available to everyone.
From a very young age, children start with a computer connected to the Internet then graduate very quickly in the name of parent security with mobile phones, they are the new generation of connected kids.
For these kids social interactivity is happening through emails, SMS and of course what it is called “Social” sites with the likes of Facebook and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are living in an unprecedented social experiment.</p>
<p>Never so much technology has been available to everyone.<br />
From a very young age, children start with a computer connected to the Internet then graduate very quickly in the name of parent security with mobile phones, they are the new generation of connected kids.<br />
For these kids social interactivity is happening through emails, SMS and of course what it is called “Social” sites with the likes of Facebook and others.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrod</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3729</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3729</guid>
		<description>In the comments section from Bernadette, or some low-life posing as her 

&quot;For the record and I have made this statement publicly before is that Child Wise supports the mandatory filtering of illegal sites and not legal sites. We are not pro censorship. Therefore we believe that the black list to be filtered at the ISP level should only consist of illegal sites including child pornography.

I have presented my arguments to many of you individually and through the media so I do think there is very little else I can say.

I will continue to state my views (as you do as critics of the ISP filtering scheme) to support measures that will protect children and can prevent people from viewing child pornography.

Again I want to reiterate that this is only one strategy amongst a whole host of other strategies that governments and the world community should adopt.

You can call me whatever names you continue to do and for those who question my motives please examine my track record. I am certainly not a moralist nor pro censorship as I dont believe that filtering child pornography is censorship.

Child Wise works internationally to protect children delivering multiple programs in the most vulnerable communities so my life doesnt consist of simply blogging and making comments about ISP filtering. We are at the coal face each and every day dealing with victims and survivors of child sexual abuse. There is very little else I can say to address your criticisms of my stance.

I am not a government stooge and have been (on the record) very critical of government policies or lack there of in relation to child protection. I do however apologise to people who took offence at my comments regarding the protestors against ISP filtering. I do believe that you believe what you are saying and I ask for the same consideration back that many of us working in the child protection field do so for little rewards and funding.I have no other motive than the protection of children whether you think my comments are misguided or misinformed. As you will continue to lobby against it I will continue to lobby for a scheme that will block child sexual abuse images. At the end of the day we will just have to agree to disagree.

Bernadette McMenamin AO

Child Wise&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the comments section from Bernadette, or some low-life posing as her </p>
<p>&#8220;For the record and I have made this statement publicly before is that Child Wise supports the mandatory filtering of illegal sites and not legal sites. We are not pro censorship. Therefore we believe that the black list to be filtered at the ISP level should only consist of illegal sites including child pornography.</p>
<p>I have presented my arguments to many of you individually and through the media so I do think there is very little else I can say.</p>
<p>I will continue to state my views (as you do as critics of the ISP filtering scheme) to support measures that will protect children and can prevent people from viewing child pornography.</p>
<p>Again I want to reiterate that this is only one strategy amongst a whole host of other strategies that governments and the world community should adopt.</p>
<p>You can call me whatever names you continue to do and for those who question my motives please examine my track record. I am certainly not a moralist nor pro censorship as I dont believe that filtering child pornography is censorship.</p>
<p>Child Wise works internationally to protect children delivering multiple programs in the most vulnerable communities so my life doesnt consist of simply blogging and making comments about ISP filtering. We are at the coal face each and every day dealing with victims and survivors of child sexual abuse. There is very little else I can say to address your criticisms of my stance.</p>
<p>I am not a government stooge and have been (on the record) very critical of government policies or lack there of in relation to child protection. I do however apologise to people who took offence at my comments regarding the protestors against ISP filtering. I do believe that you believe what you are saying and I ask for the same consideration back that many of us working in the child protection field do so for little rewards and funding.I have no other motive than the protection of children whether you think my comments are misguided or misinformed. As you will continue to lobby against it I will continue to lobby for a scheme that will block child sexual abuse images. At the end of the day we will just have to agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Bernadette McMenamin AO</p>
<p>Child Wise&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The one about guest posting [self-promotion] - de minimis ago curat blog</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3728</link>
		<dc:creator>The one about guest posting [self-promotion] - de minimis ago curat blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3728</guid>
		<description>[...] Go check it out! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Go check it out! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: AileenWuornos</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3723</link>
		<dc:creator>AileenWuornos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 02:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3723</guid>
		<description>Maybe instead of worrying about the icing on the cake, they should be going to the delicious cakey part (or in this case, the cake is not so delicious) - going to the SOURCE of these child sex abuse problems, I&#039;ve said it before, and I&#039;ll say it again. An internet filter blocking child porn is a bandaid on a bullethole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe instead of worrying about the icing on the cake, they should be going to the delicious cakey part (or in this case, the cake is not so delicious) &#8211; going to the SOURCE of these child sex abuse problems, I&#8217;ve said it before, and I&#8217;ll say it again. An internet filter blocking child porn is a bandaid on a bullethole.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3722</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3722</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve blogged about this before (see link).

Any filter that detects existing child pornography images is only going to produce increased demand for new, as-yet-unseen (and consequently unfiltered) images.

Which children are we trying to protect again?  

The ones actually being abused certainly aren&#039;t going to appreciate the &quot;protection&quot; of an increased market for fresh images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve blogged about this before (see link).</p>
<p>Any filter that detects existing child pornography images is only going to produce increased demand for new, as-yet-unseen (and consequently unfiltered) images.</p>
<p>Which children are we trying to protect again?  </p>
<p>The ones actually being abused certainly aren&#8217;t going to appreciate the &#8220;protection&#8221; of an increased market for fresh images.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Petrie</title>
		<link>http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/bernadette-mcmenamins-argument-for-filtering-hinges-on-one-very-big-if/comment-page-1/#comment-3721</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Petrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 00:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/?p=2384#comment-3721</guid>
		<description>Of course children have to be protected from images of sexual abuse on the Internet, but idiots like McMenamin do not realize that smart people can protect children simply by installing PC-based filters and configure them to block certain content that they don&#039;t want their children to see. She has children on her own, so why isn&#039;t she already doing this. McMenamin should not be surprised if her children are able to bypass this filter using software like Tor, VPNs, or Anonymizer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course children have to be protected from images of sexual abuse on the Internet, but idiots like McMenamin do not realize that smart people can protect children simply by installing PC-based filters and configure them to block certain content that they don&#8217;t want their children to see. She has children on her own, so why isn&#8217;t she already doing this. McMenamin should not be surprised if her children are able to bypass this filter using software like Tor, VPNs, or Anonymizer.</p>
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